Loyalty

Anyone ever heard of Ester Perel? She is Chump Lady’s arch nemesis (I only semi joke) and is the author who refers to affairs as “exuberant acts of defiance”. She seems to have quite the following by cheating spouses, and occasionally the cheated on spouse who is trying to reconcile. I have seen this quote from her book several times now.

My loyalty has never wavered. I was always there. I am so sorry. I never meant to hurt you. But when you measure my allegiance only by where I stick my dick it’s as if the rest doesn’t count for a thing.

Huh. That’s almost as insane as the time the mobster’s wife told him that nothing was going on between her and this other guy. As she explained to him, “I only showed him my pussy.” Let that one rest for a minute. It was no biggie. She only let him take a peek. No harm, no foul.

My loyalty has never wavered.

I’m wondering how that man defines loyalty because I sure as shit do not believe my husband can be loyal to me at the same time he’s fucking someone else. No, I take that back. Let’s take the sex out of it. How is anyone supposed to believe that a person can be loyal to you while they are actively lying to you?

Letting your spouse dance like crazy to win you back while you’re fucking around is about the most disloyal thing you can do. When your spouse has no idea an affair is even a possibility fucking around while acting like nothing is amiss is also disloyal.

I’ll break it down so that there is no confusion. You are not loyal to a person when you are lying to them. Lying is inherently disloyal.

I was always there.

No, when your attention is divided by someone else you are not there. Not the way you should be.

My husband might have been physically present when our daughter went to the ER during his first affair with Harley, but he wasn’t fully there. He was distracted by the whore. He had to make sure to let her know not to contact him, that he was going to be with his daughter so he’d have to “talk” with her after he was done at the hospital. I remember us being a united front for her, but there was nothing between us. There was no hand holding. There was no leaning on each other for comfort. His mind was preoccupied with the whore. He was disloyal and he was there only because he had to be. He wasn’t there for me. He was barely there for Rock Star. I’m sure he was counting down the minutes until he could rush back to his office and chat with the whore.

He was not “there” when he was having sex with me and then calling his whore every morning to talk to her on the way to work. It’s also not loyalty. It’s a heavy dose of mind fucking. And using a person for your own needs.

I am so sorry.

I’m sure you are sorry. Sorry for yourself. Sorry you might have to suffer some consequences. Sorry your can’t continue fucking your whore while your partner does everything for you. Sorry your spouse won’t get over it and act like everything is normal again. It almost always comes back to being sorry for yourself.

I never meant to hurt you.

Yeah, they never do. Is there anybody out there who thinks that fucking someone else and then lying to your spouse for weeks, months, possibly years is not going to hurt? That they might get lucky and their spouse will take Taylor Swift’s advice and just shake it off?

But when you measure my allegiance only by where I stick my dick it’s as if the rest doesn’t count for a thing.

I don’t even know what to say to this. Oh wait! I think I do. I hear ya, bro. All I did was show him my pussy. Maybe insane comments should be met with equally insane comments.

Here is the unfortunate truth: sometimes the only measure of a person’s allegiance is whether or not they’re faithful. For some people cheating is a deal breaker. Period.

It’s been pointed out being betrayed by someone you love, someone who is supposed to have your back and be there for you, is a very difficult thing. Once broken, trust is a difficult thing to restore. And as I’ve pointed out it’s more than a little difficult to reconcile this idea that your spouse can be loyal to you and claim “allegiance” to you while they are lying to you.

Do we do this with other behaviors?

I’ve always been loyal to this company! I’ve mentored youth, I organized your files, I updated all of the reports; I even created a chart that everyone in the company uses to this day! I landed two of the three largest clients we have and I’ve grown profits by 30% since I’ve been here. I’ve stayed late. I never call in sick. And I never forget a birthday! Are you really going to fire me over one incident of embezzlement? When you put that up against my stellar record….

Maybe it can be more accurately and gently conveyed this way. Imagine two people begin dating. They have a fantastic relationship, whatever that means to you. They get along. They take wonderful vacations. They like the same things. They do everything together. They have a lot of the same goals. But as time goes on it becomes apparent that one of them wants to have children and one of them doesn’t. Do they end the relationship because of this one disagreement? Or do they take the approach that this one issue shouldn’t overshadow all of the other positives of their relationship?

I would say that’s an issue that is going to make or break a relationship. There is no compromise with that. One child is not a compromise. So yes, the relationship is probably going to end because of that one thing. Nothing else counts.

I think the most astonishing part of that statement, “… when you measure my allegiance only by where I stick my dick it’s as if the rest doesn’t count for a thing,” is that this guy is completely serious. He just can’t believe that his wife might have a problem with that and that it could potentially lead to divorce. It’s like he really doesn’t think it’s that big of a deal, and if only she could put the fact that he’s out fucking strange up against the amazing family vacations and awesome holidays she would see how silly it is to be upset over it.

I’m trying to imagine how a conversation would go if it had been her cheating:

Look, all I did was show the guy my pussy. And yes, I might have sucked a few dicks. Who’s keeping track? I still fucked you. And I was always home to make you dinner. Me screwing other people has taken nothing away from you. I always took your clothes to the dry cleaners. Got the heavy starch, just like you like it. I’m still taking the kids to school and hockey and gymnastics. So what’s the big deal? I’m here for you! I work my affair around our schedule. Why are you making such a big deal out of this? You are always my first priority. My loyalty lies with you!

You think that would fly? Yeah, me neither.

26 thoughts on “Loyalty

  1. 👏🏻👏🏻 Amen!!👏🏻👏🏻
    Cheaters love quoting Perel, but seem to have little understanding of why so many betrayed spouses feel she’s part of the problem, not the solution. My reading of her is that we should all just agree to settle for less. Monogamy is an artificial construct, so don’t expect it. Fidelity and loyalty have nothing to do with sex outside the marriage, so don’t get upset about them. If that’s all you want -if someone is comfortable with the lowest common denominator – fine. Don’t be shocked though when the rest of us want and expect (not to mention deserve) more.

    Love you Sam!
    ❤️

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Thank you. I’ve seen that statement several times and it always strikes me as odd. If you don’t judge loyalty and allegiance by being faithful and not lying then what DO you judge it on? “Hey! I brought you a Kit Kat bar home. What more do you want? Next thing you know you’ll want me to stop fucking other people. Aren’t you ever satisfied?”

      Liked by 3 people

  2. Oh I love this…Yesterday when I seen that quote – I almost literally threw up, how can you be loyal and be there when you are off with another woman and lying to your wife about it! grrrr!
    I’m reblogging this I hope you don’t mind 😘🤗❤️

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  3. Do these people not own a dictionary? Or not know how to google “definition of”?

    Loyalty is faithfulness to a private person to whom faithfulness is due – and the example given? As in a loyal husband

    Faithful / faithfulness is firm in adherence to promises or vows, steadfast in affection or allegiance.

    The definition of unfaithful? not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty -(specifically including marriage vows by the way) disloyal – as in an unfaithful husband

    Also I’m not aware of any marriage, even a civil union (which doesn’t typically include the “and keeping your self only unto him / her”), that is not recognized as a LEGAL Contract.

    A legal contract is fraudulent / voidable if either party omits, misrepresents or falsifies facts.

    So yeah – if you are lying you are not meeting your contractual obligation. If you are not faithfully meeting your contractual obligation – you are not loyal.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. “Anger is natural, healthy, and intelligent… Anger and aggression is a way to express unmet needs…but when used to try and meet our needs” it fails. – Tara Brach

    Also, Perel’s quote, is based on what a husband said to his wife, years after the affair was discovered and disclosed. They were in counseling because years later there was still no healing in the relationship. Regardless of what he did in support of the relationship both post and pre discovery, his wife was only focusing on her anger and agressivess. He felt, that after all that time, a kind word and love was not an unrealistic expectation.

    Perel’s point, in my opinion, was that at some time post discovery you’re either in the relationship or you’re out.

    If post Discovery all someone is focusing on is the act of the Betrayal and ignoring everything else in the relationship, then the relationship should be done. If someonecan’t see your partner’s behavior in light of a fallible human being they are then get the hell out of the relationship. This is true for both the man or woman that cheats or was cheated on.

    Within the context of that chapter, she discusses the difference between couples that repair to re-pair post Discovery and couples that continue to tear each other down. At some point in time you have to decide which wolf you’re going to feed.

    She wasn’t co-signing on to minimize the pain of the betrayed partner. And, quite frankly if ppl read Perel, and listen to what she is really saying, she’s saying the path to rre-establishing trust is to focus on the person and not the act.

    And this is the same difficulty I have, I sometimes listen for what I think is being said instead of what is actually being said.. My brain makes up the stories to fill in the gaps.

    In no way shape or form was she excusing the infidelity or the behavior.

    However, I will say again, every situation is different, and Sam yours is ugly by any measure. And I am sorry about that… There are cheaters that use perel to justify and excuse their own behavior and as leverage against their partner they betrayed.

    What I got out of perel, is that in the space of all my consequences, if I do the work, something important, meaningful, and beautiful can come out of it. It certainly doesn’t mean reconciliation or even a conversation with C. The consequences are mine. I created the situation. And, I know it is hard to believe, but I do understand and feel far more responsibility to C then to myself. I would do more if the opportunity presents itself. I bretayed C right to choose a future as soon as I started hiding my behavior I did not hit her the right to make an informed decision. I threw everything that she knew about her life with me into doubt and confusion. But I’m still here. I haven’t run. I’m not hiding. And I am learning. if I were C, I wouldn’t take me back either the way I was. but in truth, after 9 months of really hard work and counseling and pain, there are things about my relationship that I don’t want back either. I love that woman, and others can scoff and roll their eyes when I say that, but I demonstrated a thousand different ways my commitment to a life in a future with her. However, I can be the greatest fireman in the world, but it all goes to hell if I’m the one that starts the fire. And I did start this fire…

    … I say this, because not every man or woman that cheats is like your monster.

    Thank you again for being my teacher.

    If you are interested here is the link to Terrace podcast –> https://castbox.fm/vb/91322544

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    1. Lol….well if after years, he is still saying stupid shit like this no wonder she is still angry, by now he should realize he hasn’t always been loyal to her, that is so disrespectful to be saying.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. No, I totally understand the statement and his intention.

        …but in context he is right. If everything he has ever done is trumped by his betrayal, then he should quit trying, pack his shit and get out. At some point in time her behavior is simply abusive. At some point in time is wife is responsible for her responses and actions. At some pointed time it isn’t about the Betrayal. And that point in time will be different for everyone because we’re all different. There is no one right answer.

        And I understand why from a betrayed partner’s perspective this statement is infuriating, painful, and probably insulting.

        I also understand from her husband’s perspective why he says it. I was married once to a woman that no matter what I did or said for years it was wrong. Nothing was enough. And nothing was right. And eventually nothing matters…not even my vows to her.

        More importantly, I understood, because I read the chapter with an open mind and a shitload of pain. His point as I stated above, was that there is nothing he’s going to be able to do to make amends if nothing has ever done well has any meaning to his wife.

        I read dozens of blogs a day by betrayed women who’ve left and those that have stayed. I am actively seeking out to understand their experience and their pain in the hopes that I can better understand what I have done to my Love of loves, and to my ex-wife (who I also love but cannot be with).

        There’s nothing kind, loving in my about behavior. But there was other kind and loving behaviors in my relationship too. It is not all one or the other.

        As I said, I can be the greatest fireman in the world, but I don’t deserve any credit if I’m the one that starts that fire. But it doesn’t negate all the other sacrifices I made for the other fires.

        Having said that, if I were in Sam’s shoes, and everything she did to make her relationship work and the way he set her up, I’d be right there with her. I want to string him up.

        I think she’s actually kind of easy on him. He did things far more dangerous, cruel and disgusting then simply betray her.

        What I do know, is that it is easy to judge other people and their situations without perspective so despite what I read, I also recognize this journal for what it is. She’s telling her story. Just like I tell my story. And other people are not going to get it or understand it or believe it. Something I’m getting exactly what I deserve. I think you’ve even written to me and told me cheater should get jail time or worse… But I still read you. And I still try to understand. Because as you said to me last night, I just don’t get it. But I am trying.

        So you said you have no use for Perel, you’re not going to read her, and you’re not going to listen to anything she has to say and that’s a shame, because regardless of your opinion of her, a broken clock is right twice a day.

        I’m sitting in a truck stop writing this, so if it doesn’t seem like complete thoughts, there’s a lot of things here. And regardless of what I write in this response, it will be easy to misread it. I don’t mean any disrespect. I certainly don’t mean to rub salt on your wounds. I’m simply sharing my perspective, opinion, and experience. I know you hurt BB. I am sorry about that for you and your family.

        But nobody come to the table being vulnerable, taking the risk, facing the uncertainty, and being emotionally open, if they feel everything they do and say will be cross-examined and attacked. We say we want intimacy, openness, invulnerability but anger and aggressiveness used to get our wants and needs met, will fail.

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      2. No he’s not right. I can tell you one thing. You are making me even more grateful for my husband, if he had your logic and thinking we would be over for sure 🙂

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      3. My loyalty has never wavered. I was always there. I am so sorry. I never meant to hurt you. But when you measure my allegiance only by where I stick my dick it’s as if the rest doesn’t count for a thing.

        My loyalty has never wavered – A LIE! This is a lie when he admitted to an affair he admitted to not being loyal, DUH, is he backpedaling?

        I was always there – A LIE! He was not always there if he was with another woman and lying about it

        But when you measure my allegiance only by where I stick my dick it’s as if the rest doesn’t count for a thing – SO WRONG, SO VERY WRONG TO SAY – where he sticks his dick also matters, it matters very much, is it not suppose to matter because he didn’t bring home a deadly disease- does the worst case scenario have to happen for it to matter?

        What this man should have said

        I was not loyal to you but I am NOW and thats what should matter NOW
        I was not always there for you but I am NOW and that’s what should matter NOW
        I should not have stuck my dick somewhere else and I will never do it again and that’s what should matter NOW!

        Cad if you don’t understand this I feel sorry for you and you have much more growing to do than I realized

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      4. My loyalty now or my loyalty before is irrelevant. What I do now I do because it needs done. C and I are both navigating this pain and loss our own ways.

        I hope one day you will listen to Perel for what she is saying and not what you think she is saying.

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      5. I have no idea where this comment is going to end up. With that said….

        RC, I’m curious. You said to BB that you think I’ve been kinda easy on CF. What do you mean by that? What is it that you think I can realistically do that would make things more difficult for him? And how is it that I’m easy on him? I’m truly curious because my tact so far has been to ignore him for the most part. I don’t really see a lot of options for making him miserable aside from taking his money, but I’m open to ideas.

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      6. You are anonymous and you protect his anonymity.

        Also, he did more than simply have and affair and lie about it. He didn’t fuck up and not do it again. He fucked up and then doubled down.

        I really don’t know what more you could have done. To hurt him career wise or financially was to hurt yourself. To hurt him by using the kids as weapons is cruel to them…but I still think he got off easy.

        And although I strongly disagree that criminalizing infidelity is a meaningful deterrent there are people that should see jail time for the premeditated damage done. He’d been planning this for years.

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    2. I did not realize this was something said years after the affair. I wonder now if the husband was saying this in the context of, “I’ve been loyal since,” or if he’s simply revisiting the idea that he’s done so many other wonderful things, both before, during, and after his affair, that it’s not fair of her to dwell on that.

      The thing about Ester is she’s not really saying anything new. Focus on the person and not the act? That’s what damn near every site tells us to do! There are very few sites/therapists that concentrate on the person who was hurt. We are always hearing, “You’re not responsible for the affair but…. you need to examine the relationship honestly.” We’re told how to win the cheater back, chided to look at our part in the person choosing to have an affair, and so and so forth. She dresses up egregious behavior in flowery language and basically tells cheaters what they want to hear. Affairs are not a relationship problem; they are a character problem. Ergo, examining your relationship is pointless. I’ve often said I couldn’t get the ex to eat a turnip. I couldn’t get him to participate in family life. I couldn’t get him to do a date night. I couldn’t make him do any of the things he promised to do when we moved to Virginia. So how in the hell am I responsible for his decision to cheat? It had nothing to do with our relationship; it had everything to do with the fact that he felt entitled to cheat.

      I don’t care WHY he did it. I care that he did it. And all that focusing on the cheaters and their reasons why only distract from the person who had a sledgehammer taken to their life. It’s like the magician’s trick where they’ve distracted you with this hand so you don’t notice what the other hand is doing. If you focus on why the cheater did what they did, or what drove them to it, or what was missing in your relationship, or what they need to feel safe and open, then you’re too busy to concentrate on what it is that YOU want, what is acceptable to you, what your boundaries are.

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      1. I don’t have the book with me. It seems to me that it was 5 or 7 or 10 years post discovery. But I’ll have to look it up later to make sure.

        As far as the rest of it, you could be right. It seems to me there is a lot of support for women and men that want to stay and a lot of support for women and men that want to leave.

        I certainly haven’t found a great deal of resources for men in my situation. There are very few men that openly talk about their behavior. But I’m only as sick as my secrets, and I had a lot of secrets and lies and if my experience may have any benefit to other people. IDK.

        and frankly Sam, based on your experience, I can see why you think it is a character issue and nothing more. You gave him opportunity after opportunity and instead of owning up, you just double down. There’s something seriously abusive in that. What that may or may not be, is no longer your issue.

        This is why I said, C did the most loving thing for herself, me and for Us. I would not take me back either the way it was. The reality is without consequences and pain there is no reason to change. No one changes if they have no incentive too.

        Now as far as what motivated me to cheat, keep secrets, and tell an escalating series of Lies, that’s for me to figure out.

        It isn’t C’s or anyone else’s responsibility to make me look at myself. Certainly isn’t her responsibility to hold my hand through my pain and loss. She’s dealing with her own. The how, why, where and when is certainly not C’s problem, but it is my problem and I am the only one who can address it. Which means not avoiding this s*** walking through it.

        I have one goal at the moment, uncover the root of my self sabotaging actions, forgive myself, and never place myself or my life, and the people that I love in the situation again.

        It cannot be about proving to C that she should reconcile with me. I have to do this for myself not for anyone else.

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  5. I dislike Perel for a number of reasons, but mostly because she can’t make direct clear statements about things that are obvious. If you get married, betray your spouse, spend time energy and money trying to hide that fact, you have stepped over a clearly drawn boundary line. You may not want to feel the consequences of your actions, but grown ass men and women understand that deception comes at a price.
    Putting a time limit on a betrayed spouses recovery time is just a diaper wearing baby’s foot stomp of insistence that they screwed over party get back in line and start validating their ego.
    I say to Perel, that if you don’t want to be judged about where you put your dick (our your golden taco for the ladies;) then you have the option to be a freewheeling single sex machine.
    I think people fool themselves into thinking they can get the family, the stability, the tax breaks and all the perks that come with a traditional marriage and not have to give it up if they violate the terms of the contract. In Cad’s case, he wasn’t married (or at least I think he wasn’t?) so I’d have to say that the legality of the situation wasn’t as clear cut, but the betrayal was? Either way, what is it that the betrayer wants from the betrayed party? Things to go back to normal? Getting to watch them struggle through trust and pain issues in real time? It sucks to sit there and see the devestation you caused.

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  6. It is my belief than when the victimizer expects the victimized to forgive and forget, acts the victim, cries foul, gives them hell for not “getting over it” and on top of all this EXPECTS a “better spouse” or “better marriage” this is in my book even a greater abuse. How dare they? You lost every damn chip you had and you still think you have a say in the game? Get off the damn chair. You lost all your power. In EVERYTHING.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. As I pointed out that’s how it is most of the time. The person cheated on is often asked to look at their role in the marriage which led to the affair. They’re the ones given tips on how to improve the marriage. They’re the ones that are given the lists and told how to feel. The cheaters, not so much. Then again, you’re already acting pretty damn entitled when you make the decision to cheat. There is no other explanation for a person running off with someone else, leaving all of the day to day responsibilities to their spouse/partner. It’s the only thing that makes sense when you consider how many of them continue to have sex with their partner despite the fact that they’re messing around, or how they feel free to criticize or make demands- all while cheating. Then the affair is discovered and many times the cheated on spouse dances harder and tries everything to keep the marriage together. Meanwhile, the person who should be doing all the work is the one sitting back watching the show.

      That’s why I love Chump Lady. Say what you will about her she advocates making the person who betrayed you do the work. Make them SHOW you they’re sorry. Prove it. Sadly, too many people won’t do that because they’re afraid of what will happen if they set boundaries. So we get a big ol’ repeat of: You won’t forget my affair. You keep throwing it in my face. I’ll never be able to make it up to you.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I love Chump Lady. I love her message that the only one to rescue you from that hell is YOURSELF.
        When someone drives drunk you take their damn keys so they don’t hurt/kill others on the road. When someone has harmed the marriage you take their damn keys too. Their ass is off the road and you take the reins to protect yourself and your kids. Hers is an empowering message and I grew up with a family who taught me to get shit done I want done and whoever’s not for you is against you. PERIOD. Reading her blog is how I found you and you need to know how much I admire you, SamXO

        Liked by 1 person

  7. You write very well!
    Impressed.

    A topic near and dear to me.

    I chose divorce and stand by my decision 100%.
    Betrayal and lies are a number one deal breaker for me. Because after all what else is there besides trust and honesty.

    Nothing.

    If our relationship wasn’t worth protecting and if I was not worth respecting and if lies fall out of his mouth that easy then what is the glue holding you together?

    Thanks for your words…they solidified mine 🙂

    Always choose yourself. Not him!

    He only felt sorry when he got caught. Remember that!

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